Forest Service Strike Back

[Hollywood]

On p17 of tonights bele tele there is an article "On your bike and enjoy the forests".

FS are developing family trails at Castlewellan, Gosford and CastleArchdale.

FS remains committed to finding solutions that would allow wider use of forests for cycling and other types of recreation.

In terms of mtb trails the responsibility lies with cycle trail promoters to establish practical and affordable proposals.

Mtb trials exist at Gortin and Moneyscalp (!)

Construction of a trial by a cycling group (who?) in Belvoir Forest is underway.

Lord Rooker, minister for DARD and therefore FS said "NIs forests need to be fully utilised for recreation and provide value for taxpayer's money".

Comments on a postcard please.

[Pete 36]

Bull****e



Total NI Civil Service Bull****e





In fact, someone had better order them a skip to talk into.

[AndyB]

I feel a letter to the editor coming on....
A.

[Pete 36]

I feel a rage coming on http://www.pcgamesonline.com/mtbr/images/icons/icon8.gif

[tankslapper]

Great!

Reads as:

If you think you will have anything even approximating what has been developed on the British mainland think again!

S-H-A-N-E

[tankslapper]

Lord Rooker, minister for DARD and therefore FS said "NIs forests need to be fully utilised for recreation and provide value for taxpayer's money".

Comments on a postcard please.

Value for tax payers money:

(a) Stop cutting them down and giving them away at wholesale prices. Has anyone actually done an investment analysis to show the economics of growing Sitka spruce for 40-50years then selling it at knock down prices?
(b) Make the case that the social costing of forestry to benefit the whole community through, managed recreation, carbon sequestionsaving hospital beds etc is the real value. We are all taxpayers surely we have some say in this?

We're on mountainbikes! It would appear the Service has now invented the penny farthing.

Ridiculous

Shane Logan

[Steveb]

Brilliant, FS really are stupid, do they actually have a PR dept? They have now dropped the very biggest clanger yet: They have now gone nationally public saying they are keen to encourage wider use of their forests by users.

So, maybe they could tell us exactly why they have recently refused the chance for £2m worths of trails being built for off road cycling?

Well?

[Conor]

Great!

Reads as:

If you think you will have anything even approximating what has been developed on the British mainland think again!

S-H-A-N-E

To be honest, when the current generations of foreign crops are felled, they should be replaced by native species. A commercial timber industry in NI is just silly! Even in England they are planning on planting more native species to replace softwoods.

Like I sais in another thread some time ago, the FS destroyed the native ecosystems by planting these trees, they shoul redeem themselves by restoring some dignity to our landscape.

[chris_the_sham]

cost of hospital beds? well i sell a hypertension drug, and we shift a few hundred thousand boxes a year. but i know that the NHS drug budget runs into billions per year in the UK. In NI alone its multiple millions. some of which could be cut down if more people were encouraged to exercise.

oh look heres a group trying to facilitate bike trails across NI!!!

[kenny]

Link to article

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=654562

[tankslapper]

To be honest, when the current generations of foreign crops are felled, they should be replaced by native species. A commercial timber industry in NI is just silly! Even in England they are planning on planting more native species to replace softwoods.

Like I sais in another thread some time ago, the FS destroyed the native ecosystems by planting these trees, they shoul redeem themselves by restoring some dignity to our landscape.

Conor

Sorry to say mate ur wrong! As a forester the FS planted non-native species on upland peat bogs (cos it was cheap!). What has to be found in the future is a more sensitive management. FS did not 'destroy' native ecosystems - we simply did not have them! The FC are currently restoring 'some' of their ancient woodland sites. (not all) Granted - forestry must evolve from poor exotics - this is a first step.

I would strongly sugest that agriculture in Northern Irealnd with its mono-cultural crops have more to blame than forestry.

Bizzarely - forestry managed to 'lock' away the most sensitive ecosystems - those that have not not been exposed to 50 years plus of nitrates and chemicals.

The FS needs to proactively restore some of its native woodland rather than talking about it! And, more purposely, is to engage fully with the people of NI - not in what it see's we should do!!!

Yes its me Shane Logan Forester-in-charge for all you decrying prats in government again - excercising my democratic right to say (yet again) that social forestry is THE only way forward. I, for one, do not hide behind a faceless Department more intent on timber production to satisfy the few rather than the many.

Ill se ne passerant pas

Can of worms 1

Tankslapper

[andyh]

You didn't really think they were just going to roll over though did you ?

This gives us the perfect opportunity now to approach the Belfast telegraph by way of response.

The position of both IMBA and MTBrider is clear, responsibility to develop public facilities within the Forest rests with Forest Service.

Forest Service have yet to respond to our letter, or tell us why they decided the Economic Appraisal of CAAN's 'plan' was invalid, yes it has now been over 3 weeks since we requested a meeting with John Joe.

It's dissapointing that Lord Rooker hasn't looked into this matter, however I'm sure he will in time.

Perhaps we should ask him to go and look round Wales, Scotland and England before making any more ill advised statements.

[andyh]

I couldn't resist. So I sent this to the editor of the Belfast Telegraph.


I was shocked to see the article today apparently from Lord Rooker telling Mountain Bikers they must sort out their own facilities in Northern Irelands Forests. Talk about the poor relation, The Forestry Commission in GB employs Mountain Bike rangers and specialist Mountain Bike trail designers/builders, they have developed facilities that are the best in the world, bring large tourist revenue to the depressed rural communities, and Health benefits to the local population, yes gets folks away from their computers and games consoles.

Northern Ireland Forest Service claims to welcome cyclists in the Forest, as a representative of the group (see your article) that is developing trails in Belvoir Forest, the group is called MTBrider.com (www.mtbrider.com), I am strongly of the opinion that they are only paying lip service to that statement, and have hampered efforts of the Countryside Access and Activities Network for Northern Ireland to develop Mountain Bike Facilities throughout Northern ireland.

I shall be happy to discuss this matter further at your convenience.

Regards,

Andrew Harrop.

[Steveb]

I'd say that article came from Lord Rookers office, promted I suspect by Donaldson contacting him on our behalf. It really does sound like he is only aware of half the facts in this situation, the half the FS want to be aware of!

One thing is for sure: We clearly have them on the defensive, and we've not really yet even started the campaign.

[graeme]

Get writing to the editor
Have MTBRider asked for an article to put their point across?

Heres my letter

Dear Sir,

I am originally from Portrush but moved over to Scotland to study dentistry at university and have been living in Edinburgh for the past 5 years. I am hoping to return back to Northern Ireland to work in the future.



One of my favourite pastimes is mountain biking, I regularly ride off road trails and also compete in mountain biking races and other events, therefore I read with interest the following article



On your bike and enjoy the forests


By Michael Drake

29 July 2005

To quote Lord Rooker "Northern Ireland's forests need to be fully utilised for recreation and to provide value for taxpayers money."

The Forestry Service have actually blocked the development of mountain bike trails in Northern Ireland. CAAN has conducted extensive research into the feasibility of trail development here and produced a strategy document for the development of mountain biking in the Province.The document recommends the development of five key sites across the province, all currently managed by the Northern Ireland Forest Service, for cross-country and downhill mountain biking: Binevenagh/ Glenariff forests, Rostrevor Forest, Gortin Glen Forest Park, Tollymore Forest Park and Castlewellan Forest Park.

In addition, CAAN secured funding totalling approximately £2 million, from numerous funding organisations across Government, to pay for the construction costs. After a study visit, the International Mountain Biking Association (IMBA) reported that Northern Ireland's diverse range of sites had the ability to surpass any other area of the UK and Ireland in terms of mountain biking.

The Forestry Service have blocked all proposals for the development of the cross country and downhill sites only allowing several family trails to be built.

Here in Scotland a project was started several years ago called the 7 Stanes, a collection of various trails situated in 7 different forests in the south of Scotland. The trails are graded much like ski runs with short easy trails for families and beginners and harder trails for the more experienced rider. The trails are one way so there is no danger of meeting other cyclists and walkers are banned from these trails, separate trails are provided for walkers and other trails for horse riders. The project has been a great success; nearly all of the trails have now been completed. It is estimated that currently £3.56 million is being brought into Scotland with estimates that this could increase to £6 million as a direct result of the building of these trails. Similar trails in Wales have brought in an estimated £3.5 million to the local economy.


The trails have been such a success in Scotland that further funding is being sought to expand the network. At Fort William world class trails have been built which now host rounds of the World Cup series bringing an estimated 20,000 spectators into the area. There are several areas in Northern Ireland where similar world-class trails could be constructed. A report from the International Mountain Bicycling Association (IMBA) who after undertaking a comprehensive study visit to Northern Ireland and all the proposed sites stated that with the diverse range of sites I.e. Mourne Mountains, north coast, etc, Northern Ireland had the ability to surpass any other area of the UK and Ireland.

I regularly speak to people who come to Scotland from all over the UK and Ireland to ride these trails, many of these people stay in campsites, hotels and B&B’s for the weekend contributing to the local economy. Many of the people who mountain bike are in their 30-40’s and have a high level of disposable income, many of them think nothing of spending £2000 on a bike! I believe that with a network of trails in Northern Ireland the country could attract tourism from both within Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and further afield.

Currently StenaLine have an offer to allow NI mountain bikers’ cheap returns to Scotland to go mountain biking. Surely this shows demand for trails in NI and also that people are willing to travel to take part in their sport. Many people travel to NI for golf for example, with the scenery and the potential for trails here it is an opportunity that should be taken.



It is saddening that because Forest Service Northern Ireland has moved slowly and reluctantly during the past three years, we have once again lost the opportunity to become a market leader in an activity in the island of Ireland. Coillte, who The Northern Ireland Countryside Access and Activities Network (CAAN) has worked with closely in an attempt to develop the UK’s largest mountain bike centre in the Mournes/Carlingford area, has now ‘gone it alone’ given Forest Service’s deliberations and is at the detailed planning the development stage of several mountain bike venues throughout the Republic of Ireland.



Therefore I feel the article mentioned to be very misleading, the Forestry Service is not doing enough for the people of Northern Ireland. I find many of the forests both here in Scotland and England have many more recreational facilities not just for cycling but including specifically signposted walking and horse riding trails, visitor centres, wildlife viewing centres (Glentress Osprey viewing centre), zip wiring (Grizedale Go Ape http://www.goape.co.uk/) and many others.



This has health as well as economical benefits, Northern Ireland has one of the highest rates of heart disease in Europe and the provision of more recreational facilities is as important in the fight against heart disease as the treatment of it.



I urge the Forestry Service to reconsider and allow the development of these trails.



Yours Sincerely



Graeme Elliott

[Zig]

Quoting from the Belfast Telegraph article:

"The Forest Service is at an advanced stage of agreeing contracts with the Countryside Access and Activities Network, and expects construction work on these trails to begin in September.

Since when does blocking any proposals and ignoring any attempts at communication mean 'advanced stage of agreeing' ?

I think its time to step up the awareness of our plight. The article in the Tele is our way in, if enough people respond to the article surely they have to address the issue ?

So get your pens or computers out and get responding...

[mickd]

I got a reply from DARD after writing to Lord Rooker regarding the development of a Strategic Mountain Bike Product across Northern Ireland. Basically, it had the press release that the telegraph based it's story on yesterday:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...sp?story=654562

The letter went on to say that:

"The promoters of mountain bike trails were unable to establish that their proposals were practical and affordable. The difficulties for funding cross-country and downhill trails could not be resolved in the time available to the potential funding bodies. The statement re-affirms the commitment of Forest Service to finding solutions that would allow wider use of forests for cycling and other types of recreation."

So there you go...I guess the independantly published economic appraisal from NITB that recommended the IMMEDIATE development of trails wasn't enough. Frankly, it sounds like Lord Rooker has been given the usual Forest Service nonsense answer. I guess I'll have to write again.... :mad:

For one thing, I'd like to know the exact nature of the objections based on cost. I haven't read an actual figure anywhere...

[Steveb]

Ask him why FS are not themselves developing MTB trails?

At a time when every other forest agency in the UK is doing it.

[andyh]

Mick,

what postal address did you use ?

I don't think it matters what they think of the CAAN plan.

Forestry Commission in GB have developed 83 waymarked MTB trails approx 2600K in total length across Scotland, Wales and England. We should be insisting that Forest Service provide us with equivalent facilities. If there are obstacles to overcome it is their job to overcome them. Just as FC has.

How Lord Rooker thinks he can defend his position is totally beyond me, he obviously hasn't looked into this matter in detail and we should all contact him.

John Doe
Department of Agriculture and Rural Development
Dundonald House
Upper Newtownards Road
Belfast BT4 3SB
Northern Ireland, UK

[baz]

I'd call him Lord Rooker, rather than John Doe ;)

[graeme]

I got the same letter back

[andyh]

I'd call him Lord Rooker, rather than John Doe ;)

ahh yes a literal copy.

still he's going to whish he was John Doe before long ;)

[mickd]

what postal address did you use ?

How Lord Rooker thinks he can defend his position is totally beyond me, he obviously hasn't looked into this matter in detail and we should all contact him.



I wrote to his address in the House of Lords:

The Rt. Hon. Lord Rooker,
House of Lords,
SW1A 0PW

The reply came from DARD at Dundonald House from Philip Gilmore (Departmantal Private Secretary). I also wrote to Angela Smith, David Hanson and Shaun Woodward but the letter from DARD is "replying on their behalf".

It sounds to me that Rooker has simply been given the line about the family trails and probably doesn't know about the lack of services provided by FS compared to those offered by the FC. Time to educate him then. ;)

[Pete 36]

so, to conclude, Lord Rooker is as much use as a handbrake on a canoe

[Darran@BOMB]

*bump* hehehehe found this while googling, couldnt resist resurecting it. I was looking for scandal

[Aidso]

I only read a few of the comments before realising it was from 2005!!!! but from what I read and questioning "what trails"? Sure there ARE trails in Belvoir, they arent that long but look at the MTBR, Berm and River trails? They've been around for years now without sabotage. Back in the day there used to be an MTBRider club that lobbied for the right to build. Maybe time to resurrect it?

[OllyMac]

Jesus that some head trip!

On for the winged door of Marty McFly could shave swore we were in 2005.

Look for to reponding to FS,

I just hope the recall of MLAs and 6 Councillors explaining it would several years to progress to community/council/ FS partnerships.

BBC already have records from meetings of how liability was up from £2, then £5, then £10 million.

Always meet, by IMBA then they just stopped all discussions.

Explained current model proposed unworkable.

It was a forestry commission model template, NI just cut and pasted NI details in!

Time to write to DEFRA.

OFMDFM also..

No plans can ne made with FS!

Fella good to get the boot in though.

Wasted some peoples time and efforts!