Forest Service say no to DH & XC trails- Official

[MTBrider]

In a move that most had expected for some time now Forest Service has finally put there cards on the table regards off road cycling in NI's forests: Yes to family trails but a big resounding no to XC & DH trails. This is in spite of several official financial appraisals giving the XC & DH project the go head, the most recent even recommending two test trails be developed with immediate effect.

Forest Service, headed by Malcolm Beatty, has now destroyed any hope that NI might follow the rest of Europe into an era of off road cycling development in it's major forests, despite the proven health and financial benefits to the greater population. Once again proving that the people of NI are treated like second class citizens when compared to the rest of the UK and Europe.

CAAN, who have been championing MTB trails in our forests for three years must now withdraw all applications for funding the new trails (15 funding applications potentially leading to the securing of approx. £2 million from almost 10 different funders) because the original applications involved building on FS land (which originally FS agreed to). CAAN are now forced to seek alternative sites outside of Forest Service and re-apply for funding, a lengthy process in itself.

This expected move from Forest Service has a far bigger implication than just limiting the trails mountain local mountain bikers can ride on: The International Mountain Bicycling Association (IMBA) who after undertaking a comprehensive study visit to Northern Ireland and all the proposed MTB sites stated that with the diverse range of sites i.e. Mourne Mountains, north coast, etc, Northern Ireland had the ability to surpass any other area of the UK and Ireland in terms of an overall MTB experience, this would have massive knock on effects for local businesses and the local economy in general.

In a recent letter to Malcolm Beatty (Head of FS) regarding his organisations refusal to allow development, CAAN Chairman Dawson Stelfox, stated "This disappointment is felt not only by mountain bikers, but also the rural communities across Northern Ireland that were so eagerly waiting on the development of the trails and the significant benefits they would bring, as evidenced in Scotland, England and Wales.

He went to say "As you are aware, the main reason that Forest Service bought into the ‘Off-Road Cycling Strategy’ (2002) was to address its problem of illegal use by a rapidly growing number of mountain bikers. It is short sighted that Forest Service has effectively turned down an opportunity to address, using sound management practices, the on-going problem of informal mountain biking at its properties across Northern Ireland. It is of increasing concern to the Network that the activity continues to take place in an illegal and often unsafe manner and that Forest Service continues to not manage this activity. Conflict between user groups is already taking place and will no doubt continue to escalate. Although sound trail design and certification by IMBA (as proposed by CAAN) will not eliminate the risk of claims, when coupled with appropriate signage and adequate information (to ensure users are aware of what they are undertaking), there is no doubt that the risk could have been dramatically reduced.

The full letter, as copied to IMBA can be downloaded here (http://www.mtbrider.com/downloads/Exit_letter.doc) (Right click, save as)

So where does this leave us? You tell us.

In the near future MTBrider and IMBA will be organising meetings for every MTBer in NI to attend, so you can have your say. We will listen to what you want and then together we can plan a way forward. It's vital that everyone attend a meeting. The first will be held in Belfast, with more around the country as required. More details shortly.

In the mean time, get out there and ride, but remember: The potential for conflict with other forest users on Forest Service land is massive, and any conflict could land Forest Service in very hot water, more so now because they have just walked away from a way to manage this issue, so be careful out there.

[Pete 36]

So what do we do now?


:-(

[andyh]

you could read the full article

or wirte to Malcolm Beattie and express your dismay,

contact CAAN and give them your support, the contact details are all on the linked letter.

[Bloom]

In the mean time, get out there and ride, but remember: The potential for conflict with other forest users on Forest Service land is massive, and any conflict could land Forest Service in very hot water, more so now because they have just walked away from a way to manage this issue, so be careful out there.

Do we not want to highlight the fact that there is a conflict between user groups, and show the FS don't want to deal with it? I'm not saying we should mow a few walkers down for the sake of it but .... if it's going to 'land the Forest Service in hot water'.

Oh, with regards to the rest of the article - BUGGER. I've been feeling disillusioned for a while now. My fears are being confirmed. This is why so many people are out building their own trails with a '**** everyone attitude'. That's what I feel like doing now. Build it, ride it, enjoy it. (These are my views and not MTBriders)

[Tiff]

Is MtbRider.. SteveB using a different name??


I aggre Bloom. Not that i'm gonna do it. WHY say no. Its 100 good reasons to 1 bad reason. (if there even is 1 bad reason)

[Reac Photography]

I have to say i totally agree with bloomario. Ive never been so annoid in all my biking days. someone needs to replace your man beatie and quick.

Well as malcom says its no wonder why people continue to build illegal trails with a **** you attitude. its that f###er beatie :mad:


Well looks like ill have to continue building my northshore park without permission. still has to be kept a secrect though.


Feckin mad.


Stevie ;)

[MTB Anarchist]

Pissed off with Beattie and his piss pot views?

Why not email him and tell him- malcolm.beatty@dardni.gov.uk

[timH]

Right I'm off to my local forest to have a crash and sue the arse off Forest Service!

[Pete 36]

Jus telephone Forest Service and asked for Malcolm Beattie.

He was "unavailable" surprise surprise.

The woman said John Jo will ring me back. She asked who I represented I said myself


I said if no one contacted me back I would be in touch on a daily basis until I got speaking to someone


I am totally pissed off at spending money on boats to ride on good quality legal, sustainable trails, all because Forest Service are unable to get their finger out of their arses.

[Reac Photography]

What would be the chances of a MTBrider meeting with malcom beatie??


Stevie

[Pete 36]

zero

[tankslapper]

What would be the chances of a MTBrider meeting with malcom beatie??


Stevie


What would be the point!

I have long warned of this situation - Dawson Stelfox says as much in his letter; FS the lights are on but nobodies home; the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead; it's all been said before.

It is very sad that a government agency which is key to appropriate recreational access in Northern Ireland should slam the door in the face of something that works so well here on the mainland and abroad. Let alone something that provides massive financial and social benefits to the economy.

It is not good enough for government officials to come up with any answer as long as that answer is no. The FC here have been criticised heavily for mis-management of timber production and it is now sugested that they concentrate on what they are best at - social provision. I honestly believe that social provision, especially in a deprived region as N.I. must come first - do we really need to meet the timber production needs of one or two rich families over the majority of the population???!!!

Innapropriate activities within N.I. forests is destroying rare and sensitive ecosystems without proper management. Creation of proper access, in partnership with the community will allieviate such issues. - GET A GRIP!

It is unfortunately time for direct action.

Shane Logan a.k.a. TS

:mad:

[Bloom]

CAAN are now forced to seek alternative sites outside of Forest Service and re-apply for funding, a lengthy process in itself.

Do they have any alternative sites?

How good would it be for a private mountaining biking centre to be a roaring success. Slap it up you FS!!

Maybe I should buy some land. ;)

[Tiff]

How many acres does it take to build a good MTB area.

If we all chipped in. hmmmmm


£40,000 each

[AndyB]

CAAN are looking at alternatives including National trust properties (who are keen as keen things) and privately owned estates. there is also a privately driven massive DH project, the land owners have employed CAAN to fundraise for, but it will be several years in the making.
A.

[baz]

It's good to have alternatives so that we don't rely on the FS, but all that does is let FS off the hook, and allows them to continue to line their pockets with timber production and ignore what they don't like.

Their own homepage (http://www.forestserviceni.gov.uk/home.htm) says in bold writing, 'Our forests are your forests'. They have a responsibility to provide us, the tax paying public, with the recreational activities that we want. We want mountain bike trails that are properly built and maintained.

So my message to the Forest Service is, in short:

GIVE US OUR ****ING TRAILS!!!

[AndyL]

Does this now make us all criminals? Anyone have a decent grasp of the law? Is Forestry Service land private (ie owned solely by Forestry service and we tresspass if we do not have their permission) or as they are a public (govt)body does everyone own the public land? If the former, looks like I'm a criminal for wanting to ride my bicycle through a forest where other people are allowed to walk, run, horse ride etc. Discrimination anyone? A pity the PSNI's resources will be used up trying to apprehend people out for a bit of excercise...

If the latter, then it's ours, and as much as I'd like to take the reasoned approach that MTBrider have been trying to take for so long, there's only so many times you can bang your head against a brick wall...

New theme tune forced on NI mtbr's? Judas priest: "Breakin the law, breakin the law".

[Miki]

what bout sending a petition thingy to show how many people are effected by his decisions?

[mickd]

When you go to the FC page (http://www.forestry.gov.uk/cycling) and search for all sites in GB you find:
Your search returned 234 places to go.

Are you pissed off yet?

[thetrailbuilder]

why dont somebody contact the Scotish Forestry Service tell them whats happening over here and get them to talk to Forestry NI. ry and talk some sence into them

[AndyB]

Criminals? no, trespass (if that's what it is) is not a criminal offence, it is however a civil offence, the landowner must take you to court, not the police, Very hard to enforce. Saying that, building trails could be seen as criminal damage.....that's a whole new can of worms, pass me a tin opener....
A.

[chris_the_sham]

hes just got my email

[thetrailbuilder]

yes but if the land is public, then you can do what you want on it??

[AndyB]

why dont somebody contact the Scotish Forestry Service tell them whats happening over here and get them to talk to Forestry NI. ry and talk some sence into themOfficials from Forest service have spoken to their opposite numbers in Forestry Commission on many occasions so F.C. in England, Scotland and Wales are fully aware of what's (not) happening here, rumour has it that F.C. are secretly delighted that we're not getting any new trails as it means we'll continue to travel accross the water in our droves and spend our cash elsewhere. F.C. in Scotland place such a huge emphasis on their trail network that the've recently seconded a tourism marketing officer from the Scottish Tourist board to help them promote their product. One of the first things she did was to negotiate this deal


http://www7.stenaline.com/servlet/se.ementor.econgero.servlet.presentation.Main?data .language.id=2&data.node.id=21177
A.

[Pete 36]

I am on the fone to John Jo right now

[AndyB]

yes but if the land is public, then you can do what you want on it?? Not all of the land that F.S. manage is owned by them (eg. Clandeboye)
and yes while some of it is public land, it is owned by the public as a whole not by us as individuals, if you know what I mean.
The trees are a crop and are worth (not a lot of) money, so damage to them could be seen as criminal damage.
A.

[FallGuy]

Im up for kamikazeeing some walkers if theyll sue the FS! :p

[Pete 36]

Seems a reasonable bloke.

As I said earlier I contacted FS on behalf of myself and no one else.

I had an informal chat with him

It seems there are some possibilities of a way forward however I dont think effing and blinding at FS is going to be productive.

[andyh]

Seems a reasonable bloke.

As I said earlier I contacted FS on behalf of myself and no one else.

I had an informal chat with him

It seems there are some possibilities of a way forward however I dont think effing and blinding at FS is going to be productive.

would this have anything to do with Fermanagh, or perhaps getting working arrangements with local clubs ? Effing and blinding won't have any effect on them it's true, but don't take what you have been told as gospel because quite simply there are no genuine good reasons for them not to have embraced this project. They just don't want too.

We are going to host a mountain bikers meetin just for mountain bikers in early August to plot a way forward.

We are also in the process of writing to all the relevant heads with our concerns following last night meeting.

[Conor]

So what about private land owners? If IMBA can potentially secure funding would it not be wise at this point to approach land owners and groups that manage areas such as the Mournes?

Or could we buy a section of a forest, e.g. the eastern side of Donard. THen we'd have a Fort William rivalling DH track and loads of XC trails. Surely the price of land that struggles to support a spruce can't be that high? And we could sell the FS the rights to harvest the trees!

[andyh]

I like the IMBA funding idea, not so sure about buying land though, it might be a bit much to manage. Andy anyway we aren't letting Forest Service of the hook that easily

[AndyB]

So what about private land owners? If IMBA can potentially secure funding would it not be wise at this point to approach land owners and groups that manage areas such as the Mournes?

Or could we buy a section of a forest, e.g. the eastern side of Donard. THen we'd have a Fort William rivalling DH track and loads of XC trails. Surely the price of land that struggles to support a spruce can't be that high? And we could sell the FS the rights to harvest the trees!As I've said before, CAAN are looking at privately owned land, but yes, we could also look ourselves. As for buying, land I don't think it's realistic and even if it was, you then get into the problems of owner occupier liability, if you want to sell the trees for timber you have to comply with UKWAS (which a certain timber producing civil service dept. are having trouble with...)
much better to persuade the managers of already public land to get onboard.
A.

[Bloom]

Or could we buy a section of a forest, e.g. the eastern side of Donard. THen we'd have a Fort William rivalling DH track and loads of XC trails.

Is it for sale? How much would you be talking?

I know agriculture land comes in between 10k - 20k an acre. Development land is obviously out of the question. But can you buy a section of forest/mountain?

[chris_the_sham]

if a petition would help i can get one in every health centre going?

[graeme]

With regard to trails on private land check out my post about Drumlanrig in the chat forum

[graeme]

bugger it i'll copy it here

This weekend I went to Drumlanrig castle which is in the heart of 7 Stanes country.
http://www.buccleuch.com/pages/content.asp?PageID=144
(website a bit crap re mtb)
It is basically a castle and country house estate. Rik who used to run the bike shop at Mabie works there now and has built some excellent singletrack through the forests, there is a red route of about 10 miles and a black route which has just been built, also an easier route and other waymarked forest road type trails. Trails are excellent, tight rocky rooty singletrack which is more natural than some of the 7 stanes stuff.
Race there in 16 July http://www.buccleuch.com/pages/content.asp?PageID=319 I did the one earlier in the year and its a fun type race rather than xc slog.
Also hosts a round of the Scottish xc series http://www.sxc.org.uk/html/calendar/default.asp#
Last year held a round of the British series.


Following on from an earlier post about building trails on non forest service land this is an excellent example of what can be acheived. The castle now supports a well stocked bike shop which hires out bikes and as said has hosted many races.

So where in Norn Iron could this be done?????
Somewhere like Shanes Castle?

Approach a suitable land owner, build some initial trails, advertise them on mtbrider, gets lots people going there paying money to enter grounds (3 quid at Drumlanrig), then try and get an xc race there further introducing more people to the trails, landowner watches money roll in then helps fund more trail build and steveb sets up a branch of real cyles in the grounds to hire out bikes and sell lots of pimpy parts

[Aaron p]

Guys I just want to say that this seriously pisses me off, but thanks to all the poeple that have been pushing very so hard to try and get us all some legal trails.

i feel like i can not do anything about it though, at fourteen know body will care what i think, will the meeting be open to ALL mtber's ( ie me? young un )

Thanks again to all you guys who have been working your hardest to get trails, i hope you finaly achieve what you want

and "thank you " to the fs for being to bloody lazy to take the oportunity to open up more tourism in northern ireland.

God i love this country :(

[graeme]

Thinking of nipping up to Gleneagles here to have a word with the G8!!!!!

[Tiff]

lets have a 'Cycle 8' concert

[chris_the_sham]

i've always dreaded saying it but........ lets get in touch with.........

stephen nolan
http://cgi.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/home/images/nolan_sml.jpg

[Craig A]

Yea why dont we phone local and national papers, radios stations and Tv companies to get the word out?

Im sure some people are bound to be interested.

Craig

P.s - If ur goin to do somin, now is the time cause its summer and most people are available then.

[tankslapper]

Sham

It had to happen! Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

The second biggest land owner in N.I. is the Water Service - my hunch is that this will be as pointless an excercise as talking to the FS but they have a lot of ground - some quite often under FS tree's e.g. Woodburn

Greame's point is pretty valid - I worked there at Drumlanrig (Buccleuch Estates) as a student forester and even way back then they seemed a pretty progressive lot. All you need is a progressive member of the N.I. aritocracy. Mmmmmmm?? Target estates and landowners would be those who dont have other interests such as shooting.

TS

[AndyB]

Yea why dont we phone local and national papers, radios stations and Tv companies to get the word out?

Im sure some people are bound to be interested.

Craig

P.s - If ur goin to do somin, now is the time cause its summer and most people are available then. we are doing just that.
A.

[AndyB]

i've always dreaded saying it but........ lets get in touch with.........

stephen nolan
http://cgi.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/home/images/nolan_sml.jpg we are on the case, I would pay money to see a senior FS official publicly flayed
A.

[Steveb]

I'm saying nothing, except, Andy- Doubt you'll have to pay for it. ;)

[graeme]

hi tankslapper
i'm shams brother btw
when were you at drumlanrig?
was down there on sunday and the car park was full with people cycling walking picnics etc
pretty well run place
do they not do fishing shooting etc as well?

[graeme]

actually just looked at their website
they do fishing and shooting but seem happy to incorporate mountain biking in their plans
suppose situated in middle of 7 stanes country its ideal

[kenny]

Here's a handy link for writing to your MP. Just type in you postcode and it will automatically come up with a space for your letter direct to your very own member of parliment.

http://www.locata.co.uk/commons/

[Bern]

I still think a mass rally - pick a date - start at the City Hall - cycle round a few times - nice n slow pace then head up to Stormont and demand to meet Beatty - get the message out there!

[patroit 66]

It's just so ****ing anoying that the fs wont get up of there fat ass and do something. They are just that narrow minded that they cant see that there is a market ot thet for a propper mountain bike center. If they can do it in Scotland with smaller forests than some of the one's we have I cant c why the cant do it here.

[Rick]

Be annoyed .. also do something positive with that anger..

[slow person on mtb]

i agree wif steve hes right. but then again it might happen :confused: